my friends, i’ve found it

We’re all looking for something. For some people it’s spiritual, physical, emotional, psychological… For some it’s anatomical. My wife helped me find something I hadn’t realized I lost this week. It’s a happy coincidence that it also happens to be the two year anniversary of one of the most important dates in my life.

So, this week is an intimate look into Celes and I’s world, and a pretty special night we had. 

Music is by Cloudkicker, used under Creative Commons


[00:00:00] Callie: Big thanks to Bretwoods and Fayanna for becoming new patrons this week. Thank you friends, love you lots! Quick heads up before we dive in here. This episode has some pretty explicit discussion of sex and sexuality, including some pretty deep talk about genitalia and dysphoria and there are brief mentions of weight loss and self-image issues.

[00:00:21] Please take care of yourselves friends. My name is Callie Wright, and this is Queersplaining.

[00:00:29] This week is my 2-year vaginaversary. If you remember, Celes and I had our surgeries a week apart from one another. So this is a journey we have quite literally taken together. I’ve been pretty brutally honest about some of the problems I’ve had, how difficult my recovery was, and I might have even vaguely hinted once or twice at how, at times it’s caused some difficulty between Celes and I.

[00:00:54] I’d asked her before if she would be interested in doing a conversation for the show to talk about this, and she said she would. But we sort of just never got around to it. This week, we decided it was time. The timing and the anniversary was unintentional, but it’s pretty cool and it works, I think. 

[00:01:12] The fact is, over the course of the two years since surgery, I’ve had exactly four orgasms. They’ve been great. But I’d gone through these long spells where I was just kind of uninterested in, or even put off by the idea of doing anything sexual. There’s nothing in particular wrong with that state of being. Obviously being asexual or demisexual is a thing, and those are totally valid and okay things to be. But it was such a radical shift for me, It was unsettling. 

[00:01:41] Previous to surgery, sex and sexuality were a significant part of Celes and I’s relationship, and after surgery, aside from one or two scattered instances, It just stopped. It bothered me and it bothered Celes. But this week, well some things happened. And I set up my gear so we could talk about it.

[00:02:02] Celes: I guess it’s just been a part that’s been missing from our relationship for almost two years. So it’s  been, how do I phrase this… Interestingly rough for a couple of reasons.

[00:02:13] Not going to blame it all on it, but I haven’t been taking care of myself the best, and I can partially say it’s because I just haven’t cared about my appearance much. It’s definitely, this is definitely a part of it.  

[00:02:27] Callie: You think, that’s that’s part of it for you, or you were worried that was part of it for me? 

[00:02:34] Celes: Both I guess. 

[00:02:36] Callie: That’s definitely not, I mean from my point of view that has 100% nothing to do with it, love.  

[00:02:45] Celes: I know.  doesn’t stop thoughts though.

[00:02:48]Callie:  I know. I dunno I feel like in a lot of ways, like our sexual roles have reversed in the relationship, because when we got together, It’s not that you like were *not* a sexual person, but I feel like I was the hyper sexual of us two. And…

[00:03:06] Celes: I mean have I really been hyper sexual? 

[00:03:10] Callie: Well, I, hyper-sexual is probably the wrong word. But I feel like when our relationship started I was a very very sexual being and you were not *not* a sexual being, but I got the sense that it wasn’t a huge thing for you. Was that a wrong perception?

[00:03:28] Celes: No, not at all, and it’s still not the hugest part. It’s just a piece that’s been missing, If that makes sense. It was a piece that we’ve had for our entire relationship up until then and then it kind of died off because of situations and things like that. And it’s just been a missing piece and I don’t know 

[00:03:51] Callie: it’s weird 

[00:03:51] Celes: things happen.

[00:03:52] Callie: Yeah, 

[00:03:53] I’ve just been trying to parse through what the source of that is, like where that came from. Like part of it was that legitimately, my sexual desire just like, it didn’t entirely go away. But it became more conditional. Like i had to be a little more intentional about it and it had to be something like. “Okay, we’re going to sit down and do this.” It’s not something like “oh, I’m just like feeling really horny. So let’s do the thing.” Like it stopped being spontaneous, for sure. 

[00:04:29] I also feel like it turned into a situation where I couldn’t be easily swayed in that direction. I remember a couple of times a particular where you tried to initiate and I became very uncomfortable.

[00:04:43] And you were very respectful of that. Like there was never any problems with you crossing boundaries or anything like that. I just remember being very surprised that like, you know, you’d go in to kiss my neck or something like that, which is a thing that usually like really really turns me on. And I remember just becoming like viscerally uncomfortable with that. That had to be really hard for you.

[00:05:06] Celes: Yeah, I mean I can’t blame you for not wanting to go into situations like that when you’re not feeling it, so I don’t hold that against you. It’s just 

[00:05:16] Callie: yeah, and I never. Felt like you guilt-trip me or like, tried to pressure me or anything like that. It was always just like you tried to initiate, and I would say no, and then you would kind of back off, and I could tell you were bummed. Which like obviously you’re allowed to have feelings about it. But I never felt guilt tripped or anything like that, but that had to have been really difficult for you.

[00:05:37] Celes: I guess the hardest part was it kind of tied into my low self-esteem. And I know you would always say it was not that, but you know, my thoughts kind of went down that way all the time. 

[00:05:49] Callie: oh just because like you’ve gained some weight and stuff? And it’s like… It’s easy to like, correlation and causation kind of thing.

[00:05:58] Like it’s easy to tie those two together?

[00:06:00] Celes: When I started my transition I had lost a ton of weight, and I’d gotten to a place where I felt good about, you know, my appearance and. You know, I was super out of shape out of the surgery and it’s been really hard since to eat right, for a lot of reasons. 

[00:06:16] I fell back into a lot of old habits when we got home, because I was too tired to care about trying to cook or anything like that. It was just easier to fast food. And once those habits kick in they just continue. 

[00:06:30] So I’ve gained, honestly more weight than I’ve ever weighed and it scares me a little bit. 

[00:06:37] Callie: I mean obviously like, I want you to be healthy, but I mean, I don’t care about how much you weigh. Like you’re  my, you’re my beautiful girl. You always will be.  I’ve never, I’ve never  become less attracted to you because of anything. Because I mean, I do think you’re beautiful, but that’s only part of it 

[00:07:03] Celes: I know, you know it’s my brain being a lizard brain, I guess 

[00:07:08] Callie: yeah.

[00:07:11] Celes: Correlating things without a real cause 

[00:07:14] Callie: what has that meant for you over the last two years? And I want you to just be brutally honest with me. Like, you’ve used the phrase a couple of times. You said missing.. It’s a missing piece of our relationship. And I agree. I mean, pre-surgery, obviously like unless one of us was having a really bad dysphoria day. I mean, it was definitely. Definitely a thing for us.  

[00:07:36] Celes: I don’t know. It’s just being able to be close to the person that you love and being able to share moments 

[00:07:48] But 

[00:07:50] Callie: specifically sexual intimacy because… 

[00:07:53] Celes: well yeah, it’s not only that. That’s a piece of it. To be honest, we don’t hang out as much as we used to either, but it’s because we’re both busy.

[00:08:07] I’ve been trying to fix that too lately, but you know, it’s just hard to find time.  

[00:08:14] Callie: Especially with me being gone all the time. 

[00:08:16] Celes: Well, you’re not the only one to blame. I have a busy schedule myself. Almost five out of the seven days of the week, I’m doing something at night. Either recording something for the podcast or playing D&D or trying to do other things just all adds up.

[00:08:39] Callie: What happened today?  

[00:08:40] Celes: What happened today? 

[00:08:42] Callie: I wanna be completely honest with you and tell 

[00:08:46] you that I’m not entirely sure. 

[00:08:50] Celes: What do you mean?

[00:08:53] Callie: I mean, narratively, I understand from a point-to-point like, this thing happened, then this thing happened, then this thing happened, but I’m kind of a little hazy on how, on how it all got going.

[00:09:06] Celes: I don’t know! I asked you for hugs. And then you tried to blame me that I got, I pulled you into something that you obviously initiated. 

[00:09:16] Callie: I legitimately do not feel like I initiated 

[00:09:19] Celes: you did! I went for a hug and you just started kissing me, and then you started kissing me more sexually and it just escalated.

[00:09:28] Callie: I thought I was reciprocating what you were doing. 

[00:09:32] Celes: No, you started it.  

[00:09:37] Callie: I’m legitimately like kind of weirded out and confused by this. 

[00:09:42] Celes: (laughing) I don’t understand why! 

[00:09:46]Callie:  It was not in my head to initiate anything like that. Like, you asked for hugs. And my thought was like, I was going to go, go in and give kind of a heart, heartfelt hug because we were like, I think I was gonna go make food and then we were going to sit down and record this. 

[00:10:03] And so like I knew that. There was a good chance we were about to have maybe a slightly difficult conversation. And so like I wanted to give you a like a good and sincere hug in recognition of that fact before I went and made food before we had this conversation that was probably going to be difficult in some way.

[00:10:24] And I really thought that you were like initiating making out with me and then I was just reciprocating. But you’re saying that your experience of it was that I initiated and you reciprocated.

[00:10:38] Celes: (laughing)Yes!

[00:10:39]Callie:  That’s weird, Celes… 

[00:10:39] Celes: Not only did you climb on top of me for that hug then you started kissing me, and then you started kissing me even more. 

[00:10:51] Callie: But I feel like the climbing thing was because I wanted it was like an extra hug thing.

[00:11:01] Celes: (laughing) Mmmhmm 

[00:11:02] Callie: I was trying to fill up the reserve tank! The reserve hug tank! And you don’t believe me. 

[00:11:08] Celes: I just think you’re being a little more coy than you are letting on to be 

[00:11:12] Callie: you think I’m playing innocent?!

[00:11:13]Celes:  I really do. 

[00:11:17] Callie: I’m not!

[00:11:18] Celes: Sure…

[00:11:19]Callie:  It’s just like, just like I had, I had nothing but pure intentions when I suggested that we go to my bed together on our first date.

[00:11:26] Celes: Mmmhhmm!

[00:11:27] Callie: I wanted to watch a movie 

[00:11:28] Celes: sure!

[00:11:30] Callie: And you seduced me with your feminine wiles!

[00:11:32] Celes: Because I’m so good at seducing people! Obviouslt the introverted person that can barely hold conversation with people can so seduce people. 

[00:11:42] Callie: I mean it obviously happened. 

[00:11:46] Celes: All right, blaming me for everything that you’ve done.

[00:11:53] Callie: Well talk me through what was going through your head as this was going on. 

[00:11:58] Celes: It was more of an “in the moment” type thing. It was highly unexpected, too. 

[00:12:06] Callie: In a good way though I hope 

[00:12:09] Celes: but then you tried to blame it on me. 

[00:12:14] Callie: Here’s the thing:  I am, I’m actually fully willing to admit that I might have initiated it without like thinking too hard consciously about it.

[00:12:24] Cause it was like four or five hours previous to that when you had suggested that we have this conversation for the podcast. And so like obviously it had been really heavy on my mind. 

[00:12:37] So, how are you feeling now?  

[00:12:41] Celes: Mmm, I really don’t know, 

[00:12:42] Callie: okay.  Why don’t you know? Talk me through that,…

[00:12:53] Celes: I don’t know what you mean by how i’m feeling.  

[00:12:56] Callie: Well, just like how do you feel right now? Because I feel like this is like the third time that I’ve had like some sort of major Revelation. 

[00:13:03] So like surgery happened. And then as soon as it was technically safe to do so, I tried to masturbate and I had like no sensation.

[00:13:14]Celes:  Which is perfectly normal

[00:13:16]Callie:  totally. 100%, but I definitely like got in my head about that and started getting really worried. And i didn’t really make a lot of attempts because I was just so worried about being let down.

[00:13:27] I think there was also a lot of fear involved. Because there was the time where I was dilating and I hit my urethra and bled a whole bunch. And dilating was so horrificly painful at first that like, I just sort of developed a fear around that area of my body.  There were just a couple of times where I was able to sort of overcome that fear and like push through and do something anyways. 

[00:13:56] There was the one time I came home from helping Jamie move. I remember you were laying in bed.  And I thought like “wow, she’s still in bed at this time of day. She’s probably not feeling good.” And so I kind of got worried.  I just kind of took my clothes off and climbed into bed with you, assuming that I was just, because I was really tired…

[00:14:15] So I just assumed that I was just going to take a nap and lay there with you. And you kind of turned over and you were like “your wife is horny” and you just kind of jumped on top of me and I was like, you know, it had been something that had been on my mind and I was like well, fuck it, you know, let’s do it.

[00:14:29] It’s never going to work if we don’t try you know, you remember that day? 

[00:14:33] Celes: Yeah, 

[00:14:33] Callie: and it was great. I didn’t orgasm that day and I’m not sure that you did either did you ?

[00:14:40] Celes: no, 

[00:14:41] Callie: but it was still awesome. 

[00:14:43] Celes: Yeah.

[00:14:43]Callie:  I had a really, like it felt really good, and it felt like a sort of rekindling of that intimacy that we had missed.

[00:14:52] Celes: Yeah,

[00:14:52]Callie:  and then I was I was kind of determined, I was like, I was angry about it. I thought like, you know, if I’m going to figure this out I should probably learn how to masturbate first because like I need to get to know my own body before I can direct you about what to do If you’re doing stuff with me.

[00:15:10] Either you had a podcast recording or you’re playing D & D or something like that, and so like you had set up and I was like “well, I’ve got at least like three or four hours.”

[00:15:18] So I set up and I did it, and I had, that was the first orgasm that I had. It was like three days shy of the one-year anniversary of surgery. I think it’s only been like twice since then, until tonight.  And I feel like each of those times, I had to like, overcome some fear. Like I was really nervous about it.

[00:15:38] And I don’t even know what I was scared of. I wasn’t worried it was going to hurt, because it hurt the first time, it didn’t hurt the last time or the time before that I don’t think. I was able to orgasm so I didn’t have like a legitimate fear that I was going to get all worked up and not be able to orgasm.

[00:15:54] And so I think it was just that sort of ridiculous Mind Block that came from all of the the pain and the like, there’s a whole bunch of incisions down there. So if I don’t bathe my hands in gallons of hand sanitizer and I touch myself down I’m going to get an infection on my vagina is going to fall out of my body.

[00:16:11] And so it just became this like black hole, fucking do not approach, do not touch unless you’re like going to the bathroom or taking a shower. And 

[00:16:22] Celes: do not pass the labia, collect $500 

[00:16:24] Callie: Yes, exactly! And so here’s, here’s the other ridiculous thing that I figured out, literally just tonight, when you were talking, when we were talking, when we were messing around earlier.

[00:16:39] And this is embarrassing.

[00:16:43] Vaginas don’t come with under manuals, right? We all know this. 

[00:16:49] I need you to I need you to acknowledge me on this, wife. So I feel less ridiculous.  

[00:16:55] Celes: I mean, there’s biology it’s about it. 

[00:17:01] Callie: I mean I could have fucking Googled it. 

[00:17:03] Celes: Mmhmm. 

[00:17:03] Callie: Honestly 

[00:17:05] Callie 

[00:17:06] Celes: didn’t find out where her clit was 

[00:17:08] Callie: until literally tonight.

[00:17:11] Celes: Yeah, I mean, you know Junior High. 

[00:17:18] Callie: (laughing) I was able to find it on other women!

[00:17:21] Celes: Sure you were! I don’t believe you!

[00:17:27] Callie: Just not on myself.

[00:17:29]Celes:  MmHmm Miss.” I aim for my urethra when dilating!” 

[00:17:33] Callie: Listeeeeeeeeeen 

[00:17:34] Celes: the small hole or this big hole? Let’s try this small hole!

[00:17:39] Callie: That’ not what was happening!

[00:17:40]Celes:  It was certainly sure what was happening!

[00:17:43] Callie: Okay, so, When they do penile inversion for SRSl, (both laugh)

[00:17:53] You need to let me, you need to let me redeem myself here, love 

[00:17:57] hmm 

[00:17:58] when they do penile inversion for sex reassignment surgery for assigned male at Birth folks, part of it is literally penile inversion. It’s a little more complicated than that. But basically they turn your penis inside out.

[00:18:12] They take part of the head of your penis and they turn that into the clit. And there’s some skin stuff that becomes the the hood of the clitoris. 

[00:18:22] Celes: She thought her clit was a phantom penis. 

[00:18:25] Callie: That’s not actually accurate. That’s not at all.. 

[00:18:28] Celes: Bull crap. 

[00:18:29] Callie: No 

[00:18:29] Celes: bullcrap. 

[00:18:30] Callie: No, I had this realization and I haven’t even said it to you yet, but I know what it was.

[00:18:37] Well you remember, pre-surgery, the head of my penis was ridiculously sensitive. 

[00:18:45] Celes: MmHmm, 

[00:18:46] Callie: like outlandishly abnormally sensitive. 

[00:18:49] Celes: Mhhmmm

[00:18:50] Callie: So I don’t know why I didn’t put two and two together and that my clit would be the same.

[00:18:57] Right, like that actually makes sense and I’m 98% positive that’s what was happening. And so every time I would start to feel it, it would be that ridiculously sensitive. And I was just being too direct with it. I was being too harsh with it. And I don’t know if this is a result of dysphoria. But pre-surgery I was very rough with my penis.

[00:19:21] And I know if that was like I was like hate fucking myself like “fucking hate you, but you’re the only way I can have an orgasm right now. So I’m gonna be fucking rough with it”

[00:19:30] . Like I don’t know if that’s what was going on or not. And so like that’s just like the only way that I know how to interact with my genitalia 

[00:19:38] Celes: is the hate-fuck 

[00:19:40] Callie: Apparently!

[00:19:41] I mean the thing that I was struck by was like, how often tonight I had to tell you like “no like softer, please” and you’re like, “I’m already going softer” like “I recognize that! I need you to be softer! And that’s just another weird shift for me.  

[00:19:56] Celes: Yes, you were borderline masochistic, 

[00:19:59] Callie: but I don’t feel like that’s accurate though because I wanted you to stop if it was masochism, I would have told you to keep going…

[00:20:05] Celes: No, not tonight, in the past. 

[00:20:08] Callie: Oh, yeah, and I wonder if that was what my attraction to Kink was, was just sort of the extremeness of it. And it was like, I was able to fixate on something other than my genitalia, and I was able to like Channel my pleasure through those Concepts instead of just like focusing on what was going on with my body and specifically my genitalia.

[00:20:32] Celes: Escapism is a real thing.  

[00:20:35] Callie: That’s true. But like I mean you also did that stuff, some of that stuff today. Like in a softer way, because there were a couple of times where I asked you to like reign it in a little bi,t and you did and it got better. It was like, like I wanted a little bit of it but I didn’t want an extreme version of it.

[00:20:50] Like I asked you to pull my hair and you were still scratching but not as hard. 

[00:20:54] Celes: MmHmm. Well, it’s still stuff that you like.  

[00:20:59] Callie: Well and I just wonder if before now, the lack of that was also because I was I was still fixating on my genitalia, just in a different way. Like before, it was dysphoria this time, It was fear.

[00:21:14] I’m definitely not going to declare that like after one night of escapades that I’m past it by any stretch of the imagination because I’m sure there are still mental blocks to overcome. 

[00:21:25] Celes: Escapades…

[00:21:25]Callie:  It’s great. It’s a good word. I think. But I feel I feel like I’ve turned a significant corner, and I was able to have a really good orgasm.

[00:21:36] Celes: Better than I ever had. 

[00:21:40] As you stare at the mic. 

[00:21:43] Callie: I’m actually staring at the record button because it’s a really pretty shade of red.

[00:21:49] Celes: Callie’s drunk apparently 

[00:21:52] Callie: I felt like I was earlier. 

[00:21:54] Celes: You seemed to be 

[00:21:56]Callie:  it wasn’t just drunk. It was a combination of feeling like I was drunk and I’d been awake for two days straight. 

[00:22:02] Celes: Well, we’ve practically been awake for two days straight. 

[00:22:05] Callie: That’s not the same, because I didn’t feel like that beforehand.

[00:22:09] Like I was a little tired, but I didn’t feel like that beforehand. Like I was in a different place, mentally. I mean, I legitimately, I think it was coming to that conclusion about my clit. Because there was a part of me that was, because I had orgasms before, so it’s not like I was worried about not having sexual function. But I was worried that there was something I was missing by like not having a functional clit.

[00:22:31] Celes: not being able to find it (chuckles) , 

[00:22:34] Callie: yeah. 

[00:22:36] Celes: I shouldn’t make fun of you. I’m sorry. 

[00:22:38] Callie: Well, here’s the thing. It’s not even that I couldn’t find it. It was just that I misinterpreted what it was, because I had found it, and I didn’t like the sensation so I avoided it. So like I thought I was just like playing with my urethra again.

[00:22:52] but again, like I don’t know why I didn’t put two and two together, because like remembering the, I mean… Fucking, it’s been a long time, so I get it. But like now that I think about, it is literally the exact same situation when, uh, I mean most folks with a penis will recognize, like, the extreme sensitivity that comes like post orgasm to the head of your penis. Mine was kind of that sensitive all of the time.

[00:23:16] And it’s a similar sensation. And that’s why it was like, you were just like, barely making the skin move adjacent to it and it was perfect. And I mean like I even, it was weird. I mean, I’m sure I’m not the first person to have like a super emotional experience while also at the height of like sexual pleasure, but like I definitely had a moment, emotionally.

[00:23:40] Where I was just like “oh my God, this feels amazing” and “oh my god, I’ve like, we’ve cracked the code. We figured it out. We know what’s going on now”

[00:23:49]Celes:  the Calliope code 

[00:23:51] the 

[00:23:53] Callie: CLIT-iope code. 

[00:23:55] Celes: Now you’re just going too far. (both laugh) 

[00:23:59] my wife everyone!  

[00:24:01] Callie: I love you, babe. 

[00:24:03] Celes: I love you, too.  

[00:24:04] Callie: Do you have anything else you want to say on the subject? 

[00:24:14] Celes: I don’t know.  Do you have anything else to say on the subject? 

[00:24:20] Callie: I just feel like I want to apologize to you a whole bunch. 

[00:24:24] Celes: You don’t need to apologize them. 

[00:24:27] Callie: I know 

[00:24:27] Celes: nothing’s your fault. So yeah, I guess I could end it with that. 

[00:24:32] This whole situation has never been your fault. It’s never been a fault of yours. Because fears are legitimate. Feeling that you’re Ace is legitimate.  Not wanting to do sexual things even though your partner does is legitimate. 

[00:24:50] Of course, you know I I’d initiate sometimes, and if you said something then I wouldn’t. Because I didn’t want to make you feel uncomfortable. And I respected that. And none of this was your fault. 

[00:25:02] I just want you to know that. If you feel that turning this corner has brought something in where you don’t want to do anything anymore, I completely understand.  And that’s not an issue. We’ll figure it out. 

[00:25:17] Callie: And that’s one of the reasons that I love you so freaking much. Is that like, I never for an instant entertained the idea that it would be an existential threat to our relationship by any stretch of the imagination.

[00:25:28] I was just worried that it would be a challenge. But that’s okay, like all relationships face challenges. So that’s not like a huge like, end of the world deal in itself.

[00:25:42] It’s just really weird because. Being, not hyper sexual, but being very sexual for a while, was definitely sort of an internalized part of my identity. And there’s nothing wrong with that, and there’s nothing wrong with it not being a part of your identity. so, if you’re, you know, asexual or demisexual, like there’s there’s nothing wrong with that. But I just felt like it was a very major sort of uncomfortable shift in my life to move from one side of that equation to the other 

[00:26:13] and it’s, It’s a weird situation when you don’t want it, but you want to want it, which is where I was.  And I didn’t quite know what to do with those feelings, but I just like, the times that you would initiate, I just would become so incredibly uncomfortable.  And it was hard for me to parse whether or not that was like a mental block, or a fear, or if like, the nature of my sexuality had just changed. And like I’d be okay with any of those situations like whatever it turned out to be I would be okay with.

[00:26:55] I think the thing that bothered me was that I just didn’t know I didn’t know what was behind it or what caused it or if it was like well, you know if this is who I am now, that’s cool. But like if that’s true, there are some things I probably have to figure out.

[00:27:09] I mean we had the talk at the very beginning of our relationship, and so like if I figured out that I was asexual and that was something that was really important to you, it’d never be a big deal for me,If, for me, if you decided you wanted to like, go do sexual stuff with other people, like that wouldn’t be a big deal. I mean it still wouldn’t be a big deal to me. Like if you you know, because monogamy is not something I care about.

[00:27:30] Celes: That’s fair, but you have to understand one thing I’m a giant introvert.

[00:27:38] and getting this close to someone. You were a very weird exception for how fast things went. Because I don’t get close to people that quickly. LIke ever. Whether it is friendship or whether if it’s more. I’m not one to move things quickly, especially sexually. I mean. I don’t mean to say that I’m picky but. 

[00:28:08] Callie: I mean, it’s okay to be picky. If you are 

[00:28:10] Celes: I know, I am and a lot of it moreso it doesn’t really have to with appearance. It has to do with how people are, and how, what kind of person they are. And the only way for me to be attracted some to someone is to get to know them.

[00:28:27] I think a lot of the reason why we moved so fast is because I got to know you before we even met face-to-face through, we met on Hangouts, but doesn’t count. Through those and then through your podcast and your actions. It was a rare thing that wouldn’t really happen otherwise.  And that’s why things moved so fast, I think. 

[00:28:52] Callie: In a hypothetical scenario where I decided that sexuality was not a thing I was interested in anymore. And I said well like “yeah, if you want to go do stuff with other people cool. No sweat.” That would be a very difficult thing for you to do, not because you’re like worried about getting something outside of our relationship, because I feel like we’ve talked our way through that, but just like in a practical sense. It’s hard to establish a relationship where you would want to do that with somebody else. 

[00:29:16] Celes: Not that I would blame you for that. That’s that’s my hang up 

[00:29:20] Callie: regardless, it would present a difficulty for you. And therefore that would be like one of the challenges

[00:29:25]Celes:  Maybe but its all hypothetical at this point, 

[00:29:29] Callie: so how are you feeling now?

[00:29:31] Celes: I’m okay. 

[00:29:34]Callie:  I’m worried that maybe there’s an element of like “we’ve been here before” because we’ve had these conversations before and then  just kind of like went back to not doing sex stuff like two different times over the last year. 

[00:29:49] Celes: I mean it’s happened. It’s not that big of a deal either way.  

[00:29:54] Callie: I love you, babe.

[00:29:57] Celes: I love you, too.

[00:29:59]Callie:  So glad I married you. 

[00:30:00] Celes: I’m glad I married you.

[00:30:05] Callie: I’m sorry. It’s been hard 

[00:30:06] Celes: I mean, all relationships are hard. 

[00:30:12] Callie: That’s true. 

[00:30:13] Celes: There’s no easy relationship. And whoever tries to sell you that, then if you buy that and I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

[00:30:21] Callie: Speaking of shit dads say… (both laugh)

[00:30:25] If You’re gonna make fun of me for my dad jokes. (both laugh)

[00:30:30] “You can sell ice at the North Pole. Tell you what!”  

[00:30:42] Well, let me ask you, I think I, under a strict yes or no binary, I’m fairly certain I know the answer to this question, but I’m interested if you have thoughts deeper than that. Do you have any regrets? 

[00:30:54] Celes: About what

[00:30:55]Callie:  the surgery 

[00:30:56] Celes: fuck no!

[00:30:57] That thing can go away 5,000 times and be incinerated if it wants to. But instead it’s vagina. I’m okay with it.  

[00:31:08] Callie: yeah, that’s the thing that I keep coming back to, is that like even with all the difficulties, and how like painful my recovery was, and the difficulties that we’ve had with sexual stuff, there’s still never been a point where I was like, “oh my gosh. I really wish I could just go back and just change my mind and undo this.”  

[00:31:33] Like, in a practical sense there have been times where I have missed how much easier it was to operate a penis. 

[00:31:40] Celes: you mean not having to sit down to the fucking disgusting toilet.

[00:31:44] Callie: Well, I mean, I meant sexually, but that too! 

[00:31:48] My experience of things ,speaking strictly for myself, was that a penis is far easier to operate than a vagina. But like I also had a penis my entire life up until then and, I’ve only had a vagina for two years. So maybe it’s a product of experience more than complexity.

[00:32:04] I was just kind of thinking about that about how like, regardless of all of the difficulty, there’s still never been a second where I’ve been like. “Oh, man. I wish I hadn’t done this.”  

[00:32:15] Celes: I wish it kept up with dilated.  I think in all this that’s my only regret. 

[00:32:22] Callie: You know, I am really glad you said that because that’s something that I wanted to talk about.

[00:32:29] So after getting laid off, I kind of stopped dilating. I stopped taking care of myself in a lot of ways. Wasn’t showering as often as I should, wasn’t brushing my teeth as often as I should, I wasn’t dilating really at all.  

[00:32:45] and part of the thing with SRS, is that if you don’t have quite enough to work with, basically if your penis is below a certain size, they’ll use a skin graft to give you extra depth. And as a result of not dilating, that skin graft totally closed up for me and I lost probably half the depth that they had gotten me.

[00:33:11] And at first I was really really upset when I figured that out.  but I also had remembered that despite being super diligent about dilating previous to that, doing everything like, not even strictly to the doctor’s orders. I was doing it more than the doctor said we should.  Every time I would do anything sexual I would bleed a lot.

[00:33:38] I would bleed every time I dilated, dilating was always pretty uncomfortable, If not moderately painful.  and the couple of times that I have masturbated after that, I have not had any bleeding, i’ve not had any pain and the pleasure and the sensation is there. 

[00:34:00] and part of me is thinking like “depth is cool, depth is cool. Like I want to be able to fit a big-ass penis or big ass dildo in my vagina.” But I remember like even previous to that when I would stick my vibrator in, I would never go the entire depth, because it never felt as good as when it was near the surface like where the tissue from my penis was. And so like I didn’t even really use the full depth when I had it and it always ended up bleeding a lot.

[00:34:29] And so at first I was really really upset about that. But now there’s part of me that is actually kind of glad that it happened because I’m not bleeding and I have no deficit of pleasure.  

[00:34:48] What are your, what is your experience of that, what are your thoughts? 

[00:34:52] Celes: My depression’s been different,  but has led to me not taking care of myself either.  And part of that was dilating, and not doing it.

[00:35:07] I don’t know if I had a skin graft or not, but I’ve lost depth, and I think that’s just normal no matter what. But since it’s not a skin, as long as it wasn’t a skin graft. I think I can get it back if I keep dilating again. so I don’t know. 

[00:35:23] I’m not too worried about it either way, I just feel like of all the money we put into it, for me not to take care of it kind of frustrates me that I did this. Because I should be taking care of myself.  

[00:35:40] Callie: Yeah, I mean money and vagina aside regardless like it’s good to take care of yourself and that’s part of it. 

[00:35:47] Celes: Yeah.

[00:35:56] Callie: I think I’ve said all I have to say do you have any other thoughts?

[00:36:04] Celes: No, I think I’m good.

[00:36:06]Callie:  I love you wife. 

[00:36:07] Celes: I love you too wife. 

[00:36:11]Callie:  I’m glad I married you. 

[00:36:12] Celes: I’m glad I married you.

[00:36:20] Callie: Now, I know I’ve been here before, but this time just feels different. It’s a little frustrating that it’s taken two years to get here, but I’m still learning and maybe that’s a lifelong process. I’m not really sure, but whatever it is, it’s progress and I am so excited about it.

[00:36:37] When I woke up this morning, things just felt different.

[00:36:40] Our morning kiss was a little longer. I hugged her a little tighter. There was a little more tenderness in our quick exchange of morning pleasantries. The toast and the wife coffee felt better to deliver. And tonight, after I finish putting this episode together, who knows what will happen. I haven’t unpacked it since we moved, but I know exactly where my rope is.

[00:37:05] Thank you for listening friend. If you want to help support the show and help me keep telling these stories check out, and consider a donation to help keep the show going. Anything at all helps, and is deeply deeply appreciated.

[00:37:20] Before I go, I want you to know that if you’re lost, you’re hurting, you’re scared – If you feel like no one cares and no one understands… You need to know there’s a community out here that loves you, cares for you, knows that you’re capable of amazing things and that you are worthy of love. If you’re struggling, please don’t be afraid to reach out.

[00:37:38] Until next time friend, my name is Callie Wright, and this is Queersplaining.