i’m tired

Transcript is below…

Callie: [00:00:00] Thanks this week to Sophie and Janet for increasing their pledges on patreon, and thanks to just Maddie for becoming a new Patron at this point after losing my job and not having a ton of luck finding a new one, patreon isn’t just how the show is made anymore. It’s actually helping me survive. So I love and appreciate all of you.

Thank you. My name is Callie Wright and this is Queersplaining. I’m tired, my friends like mega super ridiculous over-the-top tired. The right wing attacks on us are gaining steam people in our own communities are letting us down and I’m finding it difficult to know what to do about it all my dear friend Tris Mamone started talking a while ago about just how tiring it is as a trans person to constantly have to defend your humanity and we talked about doing an episode on it and we finally got around to doing that.

I know the show has been mostly storytelling lately. But this episode is really just a talk between Tris and I going over how we make decisions about navigating these conversations as trans folks. How do we decide what fights are worth engaging in and which ones we sit out of? How do we manage activism and self-care? At what point is Callie just being super naive and giving too much of the benefit of the doubt.

Callie: [00:01:20] Tris how you doin? 

Tris: [00:01:21] very good. 

Callie: [00:01:22] God I wish I felt that way you and I have been talking for a while about you know on and off about doing this episode about what it’s like as a trans person to sort of defend your humanity. And I think the important thing for folks to realize is that pretty much any conversation around transness is defending your humanity. And I think that’s a distinction that a lot of people don’t get. I think a lot of people see it as “well when you’re fighting transphobia you’re defending your Humanity but you know and just those everyday conversations about trans this that’s not what you’re really doing” but like that is really what you’re doing. And it gets really fucking exhausting.

Tris: [00:02:08] oh yeah!

Callie: [00:02:09] And so if you wouldn’t mind sort of share with me your thoughts around this. D o you do you remember the first time you sort of realized that this is what was going on and those 

Tris: [00:02:22] Basically, when I sort of entered the atheist movement as you know, a non-binary person I knew that I had a lot of explaining to do so.

That never really bothered me. In fact, I love for a while. I remember back in 2016. Like I was interviewed a few times for three different podcasts all in one week talking about this. And so far, I’m very lucky that everyone that’s interviewed me for their podcasts and articles or whatever about what it means to be trans specifically what it means to be non-binary.

They’ve everyone’s been kind to me. However, in other areas, I feel like I’m constantly having to defend my Humanity when especially in online spaces where like, I don’t know. Write an article about trans issues and immediately I get people in the comments saying things like, you know, oh, “you’re a man in a dress” or my favorite one is when TERFs say that you know, I’m somehow forcing cis lesbians to date trans women, which is weird because I don’t write about that stuff at all.

And also the general culture too, that we’re currently living in where you know, our basic, you know, the government’s dictating, you know, whether or not medical professionals, you know should treat. Should treat us are not based on their personal religious views and you know, there’s course.

There was a whole bathroom bills thing and other stuff as well. And so. I get frustrated a lot when you know so-called liberals still treat, you know trans issues as an intellectual thing need to be dissected, you know where it’s not so much like, you know, should we have the same equal rights as everybody else do we have the same inherent worth and dignity?

As you know, cis people, you know, but are we actually you know. Who we say we are? You know, do we have a right to live our lives as we identify? We have a right to self identify? Is is identifying as either transgender or non-binary the same as you know, some loony who thinks he’s Elvis or Jesus? You know, and it gets really tiring after a while, you know.

Callie: [00:05:11] Part of what’s so frustrating about it for me. Is that like. A lot of times. I don’t know who to be pissed off at because obviously we live in a society where being trans is far from normalized right? At best, I feel like as a society we treat it as sort of a curiosity as opposed to just like a normal variation of human experience, which is exactly what it is like the perfect example of this that I saw is like.

I got a random random friend request, you know, 20 or 30 mutual’s and it was this person with I’m not going to I’m not going to name names but the podcast just the name of the podcast demonstrated that like, oh, okay, like typical Free Speech Warrior kind of stuff and like one of the Facebook live videos was “is transgender a mental illness.”

and I’m like. Even if you’re coming at that with the best of intentions, the framing of the question tells me that you’ve done no research. Like maybe plug that phrase into a search engine before you make a fucking Facebook live video about it. And this person had tagged a trans friend of theirs into the thread and I’m like, why didn’t you just fucking talk to that person?

Right and that’s stuff that we see constantly over and over again and I’ve you know, I’ve been out for six years probably active in atheist spaces and activism and social justice-y stuff for about five years and I feel like the conversation has hardly progressed. You know what I mean? Like we’re still having the same conversations over and over again.

and, what I mean when I say that I’m I’m unsure who to be angry at because if a person has grown up their entire life, as far as they know they’ve never met a trans person before. It’s nothing their parents taught them. It’s nothing they learned in school. I can’t be mad at that person for not knowing because they just don’t fucking know right like it would be really unreasonable for me to be angry and hold that person personally accountable for Ignorance of a thing that Society doesn’t teach them about.

 And so I’m going to be mad at Society but if a person chooses to be active in the community and be active in these conversations, I do feel like there is a level of personal responsibility get on Google and do some fucking research before you decide to start having these conversations, right?

And so I feel like part of the difficulty for me is not even knowing where to direct these feelings. 

Tris: [00:07:53] Yeah, I’m not really quite sure where to you know directt my anger at as well. Mostly at Society in general. Although if you know, there are a few good ones here and good few good people here and there, you know, but just yeah, I feel like in the current, you know, quote-unquote Marketplace of ideas, like bigotry and ignorance are still the big Sellers and I liked what you said about, you know wanting to do. some research first before engaging in these conversations 

Because at the centering the margins conference that I helped put together back in March my good friend Ashton P Woods closed closed the show with a speech and he said he doesn’t like the phrases, you know, homophobic and transphobic because you know phobic means like an irrational fear.

And he said something along the lines of yeah, I know you don’t you fear what you don’t understand but you know y’all have phones in your pocket. There’s a little thing called Google, you know what I mean? 

Callie: [00:09:03] I feel like in 2019. We.. There aren’t any excuses left. Right if it’s 10 years ago and some of this stuff is kind of buried in the corners of the internet and difficult to find.

Okay, I get it but in 2019, there’s no excuse for putting a video on the internet that has a lot of really really bad anti-trans rhetoric around people in sports, to to call out a recent example. And I don’t, I don’t exactly know what to do with that. What precipitated this whole thing is there’s this thing with the Atheist Community of Austin and this YouTuber Rationality Rules and this video that he made about trans athletes in sports and I tend to try to maintain some level of faith in humanity.

I have a deep-seeded need, I think, to believe that people are mostly good and that when they do bad things it’s out of ignorance and not malice. Even though I know that sometimes malice is a factor. A and I love the idea of trying to change hearts and minds and I feel like I’ve had some success with that.

I feel like I’ve had some massive failures with that, you know, one of the the podcast episodes of mine that I remember the most fondly as a conversation that I had with a guy the first thing that I saw him say was something like. I’m really uncomfortable about trans people. And I asked him why and I invited him on the show to have a conversation but there was sort of a foundational open-mindedness because when I said why he was like well you know what I used to be kind of an asshole and maybe that’s just part of that that’s left over that I haven’t dealt with yet.

And I’m like “cool like this is somebody that I can talk to right” and I had him on the show, and it was a great conversation and we still talk from time to time and it’s really great. And I guess I just have this fantasy in my head that, not anyone, but lots of people can be reached like that and I feel like that’s an optimistic impulse and I like that about who I am, but it also gets me hurt very often and I don’t know what to do with.

What are your thoughts? 

Tris: [00:11:20] actually it’s funny that you mentioned about changing hearts and Minds that actually made me think you know, and especially within the atheist Community, you know, we’re always taught, you know have conversations with religious people and theists and you know, just talk to them and get them to sort of see things your way 

and then that’ll get them to sort of rethink a lot of their religious beliefs. And so and we’re taught you know that. You can do it with anyone. Like I remember, you know, when the all try started gaining prominence people were saying oh just you know try to reason with them and then they’ll see there they’ll see the error of their ways.

So but that doesn’t always happen, you know a few times. I’ve managed to make people think “oh, you know what I never thought of it that way,” you know, but that seems to be very rare. It seems like you know when I go over the, when I go over the basics and try to answer questions the best that I can there’s still a little bit of that, you know, trying to find that little still trying to pick apart the argument where as for me.

I don’t know I tend to be kind of laid-back and whenever like I’m discussing something with someone and I see that you know.

You know, it’s not really going anywhere or like, you know, or if someone has a good argument, but I still don’t quite agree with them. I’m like, you know, okay, you know, you got you got your way. I got mine, you know and and leave it at that or maybe just be like, okay you made me think of some things I never thought before.

Let me go research it, you know stuff like that. But yeah. There is this sort of especially in very heady intellectual subcultures, you know, there’s always that’s kind of, you know changing hearts and Minds doesn’t always work. No matter how many times people say it is. You know, it’s like it’s like.

that goes back to the whole thing about Reaching Across the aisle, you know, everyone’s saying that in this toxic political culture where in and toxic internet culture that you know, we all need to reach across the aisle be friends with, you know, people we, whose views we vehemently disagree with like we’ve seen that with the New York Times article with Barry Weis and Eve Peyser.

I know that there was a trans woman named Robin Cantor who I think cancer is her last name. She recently called up katie Herzog from the Seattle paper The Stranger who you know Katie has quite a history of saying some not so pleasant things about trans people but you know, Robin and Katie they’re managed to talk about things Katie and Robin were actually on Dylan Marin’s podcast.

I haven’t listened to it where you know, basically they they talk to each other. I guess it was a good conversation. So all that’s to say that, you know, we’re constantly told that you know of. Is reach across the aisle and talk to people then they’ll get to see things your way  da da da. But that doesn’t always happen.

You know, like I’ve there’s been in some instances in my life where I tried to reach across the aisle, you know, and try to reason with someone and it just you know, Nothing happens, you know and so it always feels like the onus is always on us to sort of, you know, prove ourselves to the world and that often gives me flashbacks because I had a very traumatic High School experience.

I always felt very angry and isolated from the world and felt like I had to prove myself to everyone and so whenever I feel like I have to prove myself to others as a, you know, a non-binary trans person, I get flashbacks where I feel like I’m literally sixteen-year-old me again, you know, and it puts me in a really dark place, you know.

Callie: [00:15:35] You know, that’s kind of what it what it comes back to like because I feel like there’s so little acknowledgement of the kind of toll that those kinds of things can have on people because you know something that I started to realize and I don’t remember the first time that I realized it.

But you know when I’m when I’m talking with people even if the outcome of the conversation is a positive one, you know defending transness as a real thing is, let’s let’s take the the thought process here from its start to its conclusion, right? Whether you know whether we say like you’re born trans or whatever we can all agree that for Trans people their transness is inherent to who they are as a person, right?

And so defending and justifying that is very directly defending and justifying a piece of your Humanity a piece of who you literally are as a person and when I started to recognize that, like that’s the fucking world we live in right? Like, where a large percentage of people do not recognize that as a true fact and whether we like it or not, that is the world that we have to live in so we got to figure out how to deal with that fact and.

Having conversations with people for some folks like me and like you and like a lot of other people that have these kinds of conversations to whatever capacity were able, we do, but it takes a toll right and there is this constant calculation that has to be made about risks versus rewards. You know, how much of ourselves are we putting on the line?

How much emotional labor are we willing to expend for what is almost certainly going to be a largely unsatisfactory result. 

Tris: [00:17:32] That reminds me. A mutual friend of ours was interviewed by a pretty prominent atheist activist about trans issues. Now, I didn’t hear the conversation. I didn’t watch the video.

But from from what she says they had a pretty good conversation overall, a couple little little gotcha questions here and there are maybe not got your questions but a little bit of prodding it like I was saying earlier that sort of like, you know, seeing, you know talking about transness as this as if it’s an intellectual position and idea, right but overall, it’s a good conversation, but the audience didn’t like it at all. 

Oh, they have founded her on Twitter to the point where she basically had to delete her account for her own safety, you know, and I keep thinking of myself. Okay? Well what if I’m ever in a situation like that where somebody. Generally wants to have a conversation with me about this, you know, but they have a this person happens to have a fan base which may not be exactly trans-friendly, you know, like should I do that or should I just have a private conversation?

Because if it’s a private conversation that I think it might have a lot more stuff done, less pressure, you know for me to perform. But on the other hand if we have a public conversation, then maybe the audience would be like, oh, I never thought of that before on the other hand the exact opposite might happen and the audience might you know Hound me day and night on online.

You know what I mean? 

Callie: [00:19:18] I’m just curious because I struggle a lot with how to navigate with how to navigate these situations. Because I am very much a proponent of the idea that there is no inherent overriding moral obligation for Trans folks to engage in these conversations If they don’t think they can do so in a safe way and in a healthy way. But I do think in a broader sense these conversations do need to be happening

And I struggle to find my own place in that because I am a person who aside from being trans, I have gobs of privilege, I have a very good support system. And so when these things go horribly wrong, I have an entire group of people to run to for support and for love and for affirmation, I have an audience of listeners who genuinely care about me and I genuinely care about them 

and I just sort of inherently, as part of my personality, I have a pretty high capacity for that kind of emotional labor, as draining as it can be. And so I do feel a sense of moral obligation for myself to engage in those kinds of conversations where I can I would never tell someone else that they should because I think only an individual can decide what their capacity to engage is.

And I won’t I won’t go into specifics because I want to give this person a chance to address their own stuff. But going back to the the Rationality Rules thing in the whole video that he made, you know, I spent about an hour and a half on Facebook Messenger audio with him talking with him about you know what he got wrong and why it was so bad and some of the conversation was encouraging, some of it was incredibly frustrating.

There are some foundational things that I still don’t think he understands, but some things that I told him that he seemed genuinely receptive to. And and I would say that’s progress because he has an incredibly large audience is audiences 200 times bigger than mine. And if he can be reached in his mind can be changed and he starts speaking about things in a positive way that’s a huge Victory, I think.

 But also the damage is done and folks need to be held accountable for that. And what is what is my responsibility in that? What is your responsibility in that? What is someone who considers themselves an activist? And and so I guess what I’m asking is not for, you know your prescription for other people, but I know the conflict that I go through when trying to figure out how to engage with these things myself and so I’m curious what your process is.

Tris: [00:21:57] Well, it’s very situational for me. If one of our mutual podcasting friends invites me on their show talk about stuff. I’m pretty comfortable because you know, generally, you know, I would know the other person so I know where they were coming from, you know, so it wouldn’t be like, I don’t know.

I wouldn’t have to have my guard up so much. For other situations. Well, if a complete stranger wanted to interview me, I would have to sort of take a look and see you know how their past interviews are and like what kind of audience they have so I won’t get into a situation like, you know our mutual friend did.

And then there’s like, you know, the person that you know, DM’s you out of the blue and says those magic words “I’d like to have a civil conversation with you.” It’s like red flag run away because I know exactly where this is going, you know. 

Callie: [00:23:11] It’s difficult because if you engage in the wrong ways I think sometimes you can make a situation worse right? Like you know we all remember the shitstorm that was mythicist Milwaukee, right? And I remember waking up to an email in my inbox from those guys saying something about coming on my show to have a conversation about you know what, what they were doing 

and I had to think a really really long hard time before I could even respond because I had always promised the folks that listen to the show that I was never going to have a discussion that legitimized the position of questioning our humanity not to say that we won’t address difficult topics or arguments or anything like that, but I’m never going to have a debate over the legitimacy or validity of trans identities or. queer identities and part of the problem with that conference was that they were platforming people who did that 

and so it’s kind of one degree removed from those conversations. So it’s not exactly *that* conversation, but it’s really only one degree removed from that conversation and you know I had the idea like well “what if I interview them on video and put it on YouTube so it’s not something that goes in the podcast feed?

 But YouTube is the domain of the shitlord largely, right? And so after Consulting with some folks that I trusted, you know, the idea that that I had was that I would do it as a bonus episode of the show. So it would it would go up in the same podcast feed, but it was not the weekly episode of the show. And and it’s really the only sort of like real debate that I’ve ever done 

and I feel like It was effective in that, you know, there were people who people who weren’t even necessarily listeners to the show, but wouldn’t listen to it because they heard people talking about it and they’re like, yeah, what’s the deal with this whole Mythicist Milwaukee thing and then they came out against what they were doing and and so in some ways that conversation was effective, right?

I’m sure there were plenty of people who listen to that show who heard me getting emotional, who heard me raise my voice, who heard me get angry, who were very simply able to dismiss my emotions as a rationality because that’s what we do to women. 

Right and that’s what we do to people on the left in general is just you know, the fact that you have emotions as a sign of your a rationality and therefore your argument is invalid and these are these are the questions that we wrestle with constantly, right?

How do we navigate those situations? I don’t regret having those folks on my. If asked to do it again, I’m not sure that I would I don’t necessarily know that I think it was a mistake to do and so it was it was floated on several like on several occasions by several different people that maybe you know the that.

I have a conversation with this Rationality Rules guy to talk about you know what he got wrong and all of that sort of stuff and and I thought back to you know my conversation with my friend Andre who presented you know trans people make me uncomfortable and the positive outcome that had. And the mythicist Milwaukee guys and it was a mixed outcome but I don’t regret doing it and so I think like am I missing an opportunity to do something good here?

Am I going to get myself hurt by getting into a public conversation with someone who has an audience far larger than me? And who has demonstrated that they have no problem going after attacking and being super vicious to people online. And you know, I don’t think you can hold her Creator entirely responsible for Their audience, but I do think it’s important to ask questions about why those kinds of people are attracted to the content he makes you know. And so I just I just don’t know what to do other than to be tired and cry a lot.

Tris: [00:27:02] Well, sometimes you have to you know gotta let the sas out. As for me like, you know, I’m still trying to figure out you know, which you know what to do in certain situations. But like I said, it’s very situational for me, you know, so I don’t I don’t really have like a magic formula or anything like that right now, you know, I do try I just try to be a little bit more cautious and aware of certain things

 like how I’m feeling, you know, do I really have time for it? You know, I’ve decided that basically, you know, if I’m out, you know getting groceries or you know, picking up scripts from the pharmacy. That’s not a good time to engage in a discussion about stuff.

It’s like hey not right now. Okay, I got shit to do. You know, that’s why sometimes if an argument breaks out on my Facebook page, I’ll jump and go. “Hey, I’m trying to get groceries right now. Okay, can you not do this right now?” So yeah, I’m just trying to be gets more aware of how I feel. We’re like if.

Basically, I’m not trying to like push myself to sort of educate the entire world. You know, like I try to do a little bit that I can you know, um, even though I’m not really podcasting right now. I still I still have my writing and you know, writing for different websites about these issues like recently.

I wrote an article for The Daily Beast and so far. I haven’t got any pushback from from that so that’s good. So yeah, I think that’s kind of just where I’m at right now. I’m just kind of winging it and just actually not so much winging it but just being a lot more aware of how I’m feeling and how much strength I have, you know?

Callie: [00:28:48] you do you struggle with feeling guilty for choosing not to engage?

Tris: [00:28:54] Yes, I do sometimes because we’re all taught that silence equals. You know being complicit and I don’t want to be complicit, you know. But and also I know that I got sometimes I kind of want to choose like well gee if I refuse to gauge in this quote-unquote civil conversation with this person.

Does that mean somebody else is going to have to use up all their spoons, you know to you know put up with this guy shit? But you know, I’ve learned throughout my alcoholism recovery Journey that I’m just one person, you know, I can’t wave a magic wand and go Bibbidi-Bobbidi-Boo and have everybody changed their minds, you know, all I got to do.

basically, all I can do is just focus on both me and how I feel and also just my small group of friends try to have conversations with them, you know. Just and just you know, also try not to like, you know go out of my way to you know, bend over backwards to make everybody happier everyone be on my side and just sort of stick to the people that you know that I trust, you know.

Callie: [00:30:12] Such a healthy way to think about it and I have such a hard time doing that for myself. 

Tris: [00:30:16] It took me 36 years to figure that out. 

Callie: [00:30:19] Yeah, well and that’s and that’s kind of where I’m at, you know, because you know, I made this big deal at the beginning of last year that I was going to take more time to do stuff that was for me for like my own personal enjoyment and fulfillment.

And you know, that’s why I started going to start the the Star Trek conventions and get involved with that stuff. So I started playing roller derby and and that stuff’s all great and I. I feel like I felt this sort of creeping sense of guilt kind of working its way up inside me and… And on one hand like if we’re like simply making the factual argument that like every minute you spend not doing activism means that some work isn’t getting done like.

like we could spend a lot of time unpacking that but it’s not entirely wrong. But at the same, I mean, you know, there’s the the mantra that self-care is activism and I do believe that. Because like if we’re trying to help a marginalized community, and we’re part of a marginalized Community Helping ourselves is sometimes helping the community, right and that’s that’s important to think about. But I think it’s part of this really sort of toxic idea that that were taught growing up that like we are individually responsible for everything ever 

and that, you know, we can’t we can’t consider or blame systemic or societal factors for these things and that everything you do, all of your thoughts and feelings are a result of individual action and individual decision, and I think.

It’s been a really really hard thing for me to unlearn because I believe that that is that it’s true that those things are not true. Like it is accurate to say that a lot of our ills are systemic and and and based on broader society and not the result of like one individual thought or action or inaction, but of course.

Societies and cultures are made up of a group of individual actions. And so where do we draw the line between those things? And and it also I think, there is there is this sense that we have whether it’s something that’s genetic or something that’s cultural. You know, we have this sense of fairness, right? And the idea that everything we do or everything that happens to us is the result of individual action and individual responsibility. I think gives us a false sense that the world is a bit more fair than it actually is 

because. In a way when we acknowledge that problems are societal and systemic. We’re acknowledging that Society has as in some ways removed our agency as individuals. And we have to acknowledge that we have less control over those those things than it feels comfortable to have. And I think maybe that’s why so many people have such a hard time internalizing the idea that these problems are systemic and cultural and not the result of just like, well, you know, I made one or two bad decisions therefore this thing happened.

Because it sort of blows up this idea that we are in control, and we as human beings very much like to be in control and I think the the process of engaging in these conversations and engaging in this discourse is also the process of learning the so much of this is out of our control. It’s a very helpless feeling.

And I don’t fucking like it. 

Tris: [00:34:13] Neither do I need to do I guess we have to do what our mutual friend Aaron Rabinowitz says and just embrace the void, you know, but yeah, it kind of goes back to what we always say at the end of every AA meeting, you know grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference man. That is a tough thing to do that I’m still learning, you know, like. 

Callie: [00:34:43] And I think what’s tough about it is learning to recognize the difference between the things you can and can’t change right because I think looking at something and saying “well there’s nothing I can do about that” can be a convenient way to shirk responsibility for things that you might actually be able to change and I know in some head spaces, that’s a trap that I would definitely fall into.

And so like I think that’s what makes it complicated is learning how to parse. What’s what in that statement. 

Tris: [00:35:12] Yep, I totally agree. Couldn’t have said it better

Callie: [00:35:16] So what do we do Tris? You got it. You got to solve this and make me feel better. 

Tris: [00:35:24] you know what? I I 

Callie: [00:35:27] Embrace the void. 

Tris: [00:35:29] yeah, we yeah, we could do that or just, I don’t know. I guess just being more aware of how we’re feeling and how its strength we have and how much time we have. You know, it’s an ongoing process. You know, I have no answers. You know, I’m just I’m just finding them out as I go along, you know. 

Callie: [00:35:48] I think that’s all we can say for most of us right like and and I guess again that that’s part of my part of my problem and part of maybe what I’m trying to figure out whether or not is my naivete like am I being naive or Is it a legitimate position to have?

 Because I always think when things like this happen, I like to think that people are generally trying to do their best to do good. And and I think I think that’s an accurate statement. Of course people just have wildly differing and sometimes evil definitions of what constitutes doing good.

But I think generally speaking people don’t want to hurt other people and I’m constantly wondering, you know, Is someone failing despite doing their best to do otherwise or is there malice? Is there forethought? Is there skeeziness? Is there shadiness happening? Because a lot of a lot of well-intentioned, ignorant blundering can also present the same way that bad acting and bad intent does. I don’t know.

 I feel like I feel like I’m trying to live in a Disney movie. And like, in some ways I recognize that fact and in realize that like maybe maybe I actually need to be a little bit more cynical than I am. But I also don’t want to be because that’s not like I don’t because I can see my I can see my head constantly being in a dark place if I do that. And I can see myself losing hope very quickly. And I can see my mental well-being going down the fucking tubes very quickly and very easily if I if I just sort of embrace those feelings and and and I don’t want to do that.

But I also recognize that if I’m if I’m constantly giving people chances and constantly giving people the benefit of the doubt when they’ve pretty clearly demonstrated their not worthy of that. Then I am in some ways becoming a bad actor myself, and I don’t know what to do with that. 

I want to thank Tris for taking the time to talk with me.

You totally should check out their writing. 

Tris: [00:37:59] the best place to find it is if you go to medium.com the daily Where I’m trying to get into blogging although even though it’s called a daily queer. I’d only updated sporadically, you know, I have to be really disciplined but you know for other stuff you can follow me on Twitter at tmamone.

Callie: [00:38:26] If you want to stay connected with me and the show, you can search Queersplaining on Facebook and Twitter. I’m on Instagram and Twitter at calliegetsis and you know, what would be awesome after the week that I had. Find the show on your social media platform of choice and send me a note via comment or private message about something good that happened to you this week.

 And if the answer is nothing, that’s okay. We all go through times like that. I love you and I hope things get better for you soon. 

Before I go. I want you to know that if you’re lost you’re hurting you’re scared. If you feel like no one cares and no one understands you need to know there’s a community out here that loves you cares for you knows that you’re capable of amazing things and that you are worthy of love.

If you’re struggling, please don’t be afraid to reach out. Until next time my friends. My name is Callie Wright and this is Queersplaining.